BEF Tank Markings 7RTR and 4RTR

[nickwatts]

Can anyone shed a little more light on the company tactical signs used on Matildas and Light tanks with 1st Army tank Brigade in France 1940 with the BEF?

Photographic evidence shows three main types of sign-

There are some Infantry Mk Is with white solid geometric shapes, but confusingly these seem to relate to both 4RTR and 7RTR vehicles:
Gossip and HMH799 – triangle (A Coy, Gossip is from 7 RTR)
Drastic and HMH825 and HMH794 (4RTR pre hostilities) – square (B Coy, Drastic is from 4 RTR)
Glenlyon – disc (C coy, 7 RTR)

Then there are a few Infantry Mk Is with a darker colour of solid geometric shape:
Giggle – triangle (A Coy, 7 RTR)
HMH835 – diamond maybe?

And then there are a mixed bunch of Infantry Mk Is and Infantry Mk IIs with the hatched white shapes, which I think are section leaders :
Dennis – Square (B coy, 4 RTR)
Grimsby and Greenock – disc (C Coy, 7 RTR)
Gough – triangle (A Coy, 7 RTR)

Plus, of course, the large number of vehicles apparently without any tactical sign at all such as Good Luck (Sgt Doyles Infantry Mk II), but this may be due to fire/smoke obscuring the tactical sign.
Annoyingly, the one photo I’ve seen of a 4RTR Vickers MkVIb doesn’t appear to have any tactical sign (IWM Online collection F2112).

Greenock is often pictured on the beach, presumably at or near Dunkirk, but is this a staged propaganda photo, as several individual tanks seemed to have been moved about and there is a photo of Greenock on the move ‘under new management’, or was Greenock one of the two 1st Army Tank Brigade tanks to make it to Dunkirk?

Deoch, an Infantry Mk I from 4 RTR is shown in an IWM photo with the number 1874 - what does this signify, because it can't be a census number and it does appear on another, unnamed Mk I...?

Am I right that 4 RTR Battalion colours were Blue and 7 RTR were red and green? Were these used on the tactical signs of HQ tank(s)?

I am also interested in matching up tank names to company or section in both battalions.

Further, I am unclear what the organisation was of the 1st Army Tank Brigade HQ of the BEF - I understand that there was a Brigade Workshops unit (RAOC?) and presumably command and administration parts - anyone got some info?

Additionally, some sources say that 7 RTR went to France with 7 light tanks and 'some' carriers - any thoughts on that one. I have read that 2nd Lt Peter Vaux had a light tank at Arras, and that his Bn. Adjutant Robert Cracroft and his C.O. Lt. Col. Fitzmaurice had use of light tanks from his recce unit, can anyone tell me the organisation?

Sorry about the long list of questions, but the more I find out, the more questions there seem to be.

Basically, anything on 1st Army Tank Brigade, BEF and its associated units, as well as the Arras fighting that is not in the standard texts.

Yours in hope,
Nick Watts

[son-of-tiny]

will find the answeres to your questions and update may take some time

World War II
The 1st Armoured Division was a regular division in the British Army at the outbreak of World War II. It had formerly been designated The Mobile Division. It first saw service in incomplete form under the second British Expeditionary Force sent to France in 1940. It landed in France on 14 April 1940 and was evacuated on 16 June, having served south of the River Somme, isolated from the other British formations.

For the rest of 1940 and up until 27 August 1941, the division was stationed in the United Kingdom on anti-invasion duties. It then embarked for Egypt under the command of Major General Herbert Lumsden. Arriving in Egypt on 13 November 1941, it took part in many of the major battles of the later part of the campaign against Rommel including Gazala, Mersa Matruh, 1st El Alamein, 2nd El Alamein, Tebaga Gap, Akarit, El Kourzia and Tunis.

From the end of the Tunisian campaign the division remained in North Africa until May 1944. It then transferred to Italy, fighting one last battle at Coriano in the fighting on the Gothic Line before ceasing to be an operational unit on 28 October. The division was disbanded on 1 January 1945.

Battle of Arras (1940)


Battle of Arras
Part of World War II
Date May 20, 1940
Location Arras, France
Result German Tactical Victory, British Strategic Victory


Commanders
Major-General Harold Franklyn Generalmajor Erwin Rommel
Casualties and losses
About 100 killed or wounded. 300 killed or wounded, 400 Captured

The Battle of Arras, was an Allied counterattack during the French campaign against the flank of Wehrmachts blitzkrieg through France in 1940 during World War II. The counter-attack was aimed at cutting off the German forces that were in turn pushing toward the channel coast to entrap the Allied



Background
Early in the Battle of France, German forces managed to defeat Allied forces and push them back considerably. In an attempt to shore up defenses against the rapidly approaching German advance, the British Expeditionary Force reinforced the town of Arras. By May 20, the Allied forces in Arras found themselves surrounded.

The battle
Lord Gort, commander-in-chief of the BEF, ordered a counter-attack in an attempt to delay the Germans and prevent British forces from being overrun.

The counterattack would be led by Major-General Harold Franklyn; his forces, codenamed Frankforce, consisted of two divisions and 74 tanks as well as 60 supporting French tanks. The heavily armoured infantry tanks, the Matilda tanks, of the BEF enjoyed some initial success against the more lightly armoured and armed Panzers. The defending forces, elements of motorized SS regiment "Totenkopf" - later to be expanded into SS-Division Totenkopf were overrun, their standard 37 mm PaK 36/37 anti-tank guns proving ineffective against the Matilda. Generalmajor Erwin Rommel, commanding the 7.Panzer-Division committed some of his armour to local counterattacks, only to find the guns of the Panzer II and Panzer III tanks could not penetrate the Matildas' armour.

Desperate to prevent a British breakthrough, Rommel ordered the division's 8.8cm FlaK 18 Flak and 105 mm field guns be formed into a defensive line and fire anti-tank and HE rounds in a last ditch effort to stop the Matildas. The BEF's advance was halted with heavy losses. Then, with Luftwaffe support, Rommel launched a successful counter-attack, driving the British back. Frankforce had been repulsed.


Aftermath
The battle is historically credited with shaking the confidence of the German High Command (OKW). Erwin Rommel is noted to have written a report of an attack by hundreds of Allied tanks, which was likely a contributing factor to the halt of the German offensive for 24 hours (though Hermann Göring's promises that the Luftwaffe could finish off Dunkirk was also a major factor). The main British force consisted of only 58 machine gun armed Matilda I and 16 2 pounder gun armed Matilda II supported by a few lighter armoured vehicles. The delay by the OKW is one of the main reasons for the success of Operation Dynamo. For this reason, Frankforce, in spite of being repulsed, could be considered one of the few allied successes of the 1940 French campaign. In total, more than 40 British and French (20) tanks were lost in the battle, compared to around a dozen lost by the Germans.

The British lost around 100 men killed or wounded in the attack, it is unknown how many French soldiers became casualties in the engagement but due to the small participation of the French it could be assumed casualties would have been light. The Germans lost 700 men, of which 400 were captured, mainly the the initial stages of the battle before the 8.8cm FlaK 18 guns were brought about to engage the British forces.

Despite common misperception, the 8.8cm FlaK 18 was not used for the first time as an anti-tank gun at Arras. Several years earlier, during the Spanish Civil War, the German volunteer unit Legion Condor had used 8.8cm FlaK guns against armour and other ground targets. Rommel realised the defensive power of the eighty-eights and used them to great effect during his time commanding the Afrika Korps.

[soprano54]

Firstly there is some good info on this site:- www.sharbul.co.uk/4rtr/sellfolio.html

As for the Sqn Tac signs A Sqn - Triangle, B Sqn - Square, C Sqn - Circle and RHQ/HQ - Diamond.

I can cfm that 4RTR's colour was Blue and the 7th's was Red over Green. I'm surprised that none of the 4th's tanks sported the 'Chinese Eye'!

2/Lt Peter Vaux was the Recce Officer.

[nickwatts]

Thanks for the website - there is a great photo of 4RTR entrained at Cherbourg showing one carrier clearly - from the hull configuration and track guards it looks like a Cavalry Carrier! This is the first I've seen in a contemporary photo and is interesting as some were supposedly sent over with the BEF.

There is also a good photo of 2nd/Lt. Vaux in an A11 - Devil.

Thanks for the pointer.

- Nick